Reviewing stories and sockpuppets

[lady_karelia]

I've written 600 words today, so don't give me glares, okay?

Lately, whenever I've felt the need to procrastinate and couldn't find a story to get sucked into, I took to reading reviews of stories by new authors. And I noticed that those who leave a not so positive review are usually the ones who don't have stories on either Ashwinder or The Petulant Poetess. And I'm not talking about constructive criticism here, either. I mean basically bitch arse highly subjective opinions often written in a rather patronising way. Something like "The subject matter is far too complex for a one-shot, you really need to elaborate on the backstory" or "I really don't like song fics" or "This is way too angsty!" I mean, never mind that I thought the first accusation was utterly ridiculous, the second story stated right at the beginning that the inspiration for the story came from a song, and the third one was in the category of angst. What really gets me is that some people seem to wait for a new author and then they lash out.

I know that one of this kind of reviewers has been known to be the bane of some archive admins. Are they just vindictive? As in "Well if I can't get into the archive, I'll simply foulmouth anyone who can" kind of thing. It's a well enough known fact that fanfic authors and new authors don't have the linguistic freedom that a lot of authors do. We don't get away with omitting a comma just to keep the flow going. We don't get away with spelling 'headmaster' once uncapsed and the next time capsed. With a good beta, we don't even get away with screwing up the timeline of our stories. We are required to fanatically follow the rules of the English language, and I'm not even talking about those archives who beta-read instead of simply admin'ing a story before validating it. It is a generally accepted standard that if your story does not follow the general rules of the English language it won't be validated. And I think that's a good thing. For me at least, it taught me one hell of a lot about writing. Just reading stories on the afore-mentioned archives has improved my vocabulary, writing, grammar, punctuation, you name it. Very often these days, I find that books don't do that any more. Have you read a fiction lately? How many typos, non-sentences, lacking commas, superfluous commas have you found? I do not believe in rules in general. I do believe in communication, though. And in order to be able to communicate, we all need to agree on a form of communication that is universally comprehended. Because otherwise, that communication goes down the route of the panda who eats, shots, and leaves. And that would be a damn shame.

Another related issue that comes to mind is the sockpuppet in archives. I read one author's profile who actually proclaimed that she has a different ID that she uses to review for whatever reason. Now, I can't quite understand it because to me, it would be way too much effort and a waste of time if I have to keep switching my ID according to whether I read or submit, but that's me. And besides, I have no reason to hide my real identity because I'm not a nasty person, I'm merely blunt. But it left me wondering if it's a common trend to have another ID under which one leaves reviews so if one leaves a not so benign review it won't backfire. Or whatever other reason.

Thoughts?

Comments

[atlantel.livejournal.com]

For me at least, it taught me one hell of a lot about writing. Just reading stories on the afore-mentioned archives has improved my vocabulary, writing, grammar, punctuation, you name it.

The same for me. Two years ago, I barely spoke English (I did use online translator to read a story (at least to help me) my reviews were what I read before (just a copy) (eg lovely story; keep up the good work etc). I really hated English in high school, at university, I only chose German and so on. Then many years later, I had problems. Now, I'm better, I even write drabbles from time to time, my English is better (I do not use online translators anymore *giggles* I read quickly books and fanfictions in English etc. It's really nice! And I also made great friends here!

. I read one author's profile who actually proclaimed that she has a different ID that she uses to review for whatever reason.

I know that acadia elle has a different ID. I don't know why, when I found out, I thought it was ridiculous. Especially the way she explains her joice in her profile (ash).

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

I'm giggling with you about online translators! :-)

Your English has grown in leaps and bounds if you only started two years ago! I didn't exactly hate English in high school, I just got bored with a very boring teacher. So I ended up moving to England to learn it, LOL. I have also made great friends here, and I'm really happy about that. Which is probably why I get so annoyed when I see a pattern of annoyance, such as the infamous fandom wanks, and the same names of reviewers when it comes to poor reviews. *sigh*

I don't know why, when I found out, I thought it was ridiculous.

*nods* There might be more than one on Ash. I don't remember whose profile I looked at who said that, it might have been the same or maybe a different one. I just couldn't understand it. I love the 'permanent log-in' feature on both Ash and TPP, and I couldn't ever be bothered to log out and then log in under a different name, then log out again and log in again *yawn*. I could write at least 20 words during that time, that's a fifth of a grangersnape100 drabble, you know... LOL

[atlantel.livejournal.com]

Your English has grown in leaps and bounds if you only started two years ago!

Well, I did study English for 8 years in school, so I wasn't completely a newbie, I just hated the language because I had a bad trip in England (weird host family and such when I was 13, then the next 5 years weren't really productive). I was just barely average with 6 hours of English per week:)

Anyway, my English has never been that good, even when I was in school.


As for fics, well, it's so ridiculous. This author said she did review with another nickname so people wouldn't fee obliged to review her stories *shakes head*

I could write at least 20 words during that time, that's a fifth of a grangersnape100 drabble, you know... LOL

*smile* maybe, but sometimes it's not easy to get ideas. This week's challenge is really hard (7 sins, one for each drabbles).
Though, I'm the new spy, I think Droxy doesn't like it, but oh well. It's more fun to be able to write angsty stuff from time to time.

[veradee.livejournal.com]

I think it's fair enough to leave a review even if you haven't written anything yourself but there's no need to be rude. With some of these reviews I think that people are just too stupid to read the warnings or have a look at the category.

I see the point of having two ljs if you are active in two very different fandoms or something like that, but it never occurred to me to register with two names at an fanfic archive. That comes across like cowardice - as if someone were afraid to get bad reviews if they themselves left bad ones.

I don't know about the vindictiveness. I don't read enough at TPP to comment on it, but you don't have to be a brilliant writer to be accepted at Ashwinder or the other SH archives. Most of all they seem to care about grammar and spelling, which is easily enough to achieve when you have a beta.

I'd love to say that archiving my meagre amount of stories has helped me to learn more about the English grammar, but since every archive uses different rules, I can't really say so. It's more annoying than enlightening in my opinion.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's just it, the rudeness. The majority of the reviews I have received to date are from non-writers. But none of them are rude. They range from downright squees to politely pointing out some weakness. And I appreciate that greatly. I mean, how can I improve my writing if I don't receive opinions. But polite ones. That's the problem I have with those reviewers I mention in my post. They are not polite. They do not have archived stories themselves and yet, they behave as if they are an authority on writing.

I'm with you on having two ljs for different subjects. I have two email addresses, one I use for writing issues, the other for everything else. But that's not the same, is it?

I've seen this pattern of reviewers on both TPP and Ashwinder. And I agree with you, you don't have to be a brilliant writer to be accepted. Heck, my stuff is on there! It's just so great to be on the same site as such greats like Bambu or Quillusion. :-)

The problem with rules in English is that there are several very good grammar books about. But compare three of them, and you'll find about 50 different opinions. :-) What I do appreciate about both TPP and Ash is that if you argue your point and cite a valid reference, they tend to accept it. So, basically, choose one generally recognised grammar book and go by the rules in that, and if they want you to change something, simply cite your source.

[veradee.livejournal.com]

I have two email addresses as well. After all not everyone on the net needs to know my real name.

Perhaps I wasn't insistent enough when I posted my stories at the archives. I just got the impression that they use much more commas than I am used to, but unfortunately they weren't consistent. There seem to be great differences between British and American English when it comes to punctuation.

[juli-min.livejournal.com]

I'm with you as far as nasty pointless reviews go. A while ago I had someone write me tons of mails just to tell me that he didn't like my story and that he thought a German shouldn't be allowed to mess with English literature.

I take the time to read the reviews to stories I like and I'm glad that most people at Ashwinder and the Petulant Poetess seem to be encouraging and not hurtful and nasty.

It's mostly on FF.net where I find very rude comments. If the story states that it is based on a song or some challenge and people complain about it I always think they are bitchy on purpose.

And yes fanfiction taught me a lot about punctuation. I still make mistakes but that's what you have betas for.

As for mistakes in published fiction. One of my favorite books includes some of the funniest typos in the world. I know they are typos because they were corrected in the paperback.

[ellaselenelupin.livejournal.com]

I can't understand people who leave nasty reviews. I mean, they obviously don't like the story, but they take the time to read the whole story and then write a review, too?

And having two accounts at archives seems a bit weird for me. As a newbie, you love all reviews and appreciated them; especially if it's constructive criticism. But if I, as a newbie, receive a great review from... let's say notsosaintly, it means the world to me.
When you get a review from an experienced, established and really good author, this review is really, really important. Well, at least for me. But if this author leaves her reviews under another name, it's just a review like all the others for me. I would be happy about the great review, but I don't have the thrill, pride and yes gratification that an author like notsosaintly likes my story; and also thinks it's good.

It's so hard to express my point in English. Wow, what a great transition to the next topic. My English was always rather good, but my grades boosted up after my three weeks in New Orlans and since then my English was almost always above average.
But I do noticed that my English got even better after I started reading fanfiction. I think more about what I want to write, especially punctuation and often syntax. I really made some progress after I discovered moderated archives. When I now read stories at "free" archives I cringe at the mistakes some authors make -even though they could avoid some of these mistakes by using a spellchecker- mistakes I would have overlooked a year ago. Okay, this last sentence reads a bit strange, but I lost my train of thoughts along the way. LOL!

*shows off new yummy Remus icon*

[larilee.livejournal.com]

I'll agree with you that I do believe there are some people who deliberately treat new authors poorly. The saddest thing I have seen is that some of them are treated like that by 'established authors'.

There have been a few new authors who impressed the crap out of me with her first story. You could read it, you can tell at there are some minor flaws, but it blows you away for first story. And then I read the review thread and find these subjective reviews that must be hurtful. But they walk that fine line between a flame and a constructive review by offering something nice with their criticism. And it's usually something stupid like: "You've had a few typos and some canon problems. You need a good beta to help smooth these over. This is a nice little tale, especially for a first attempt at trying to tell a story and I think if you keep at it, you'll write something good some day."

I'm actually quoting from a review I received. I won't say I'm established, but I have been around the archive once or twice. And I have one story that I'm very proud of and it's probably the best fan fiction I'll ever write. For a while, I sent it around to different archives where I was not known, just to see what people who didn't know me thought of it. You see, I've had it said that I only get reviews because people know me and I really wanted to test that theory. Most of the reviews echo things the people who do know me had to say, mostly extremely positive. But a couple of times, however, I received reviews like this from established writers at those sites.

I think sometimes people get jealous of new writers, especially, as you pointed out, if they couldn't get their story on the archive or if they're not capable of writing. I read at a lot of Yahoo groups and noticed recently that the people who were mostly negatively opinionated seldom had stories out on the Internet. And sometimes, I think there's a bit of jealousy from writers who do make it on the archives.

And I'll never understand having a sock puppet, especially if you link the two together and give the excuse that you don't any one to feel obligated to read you. I've never left a review hoping that someone would read one of my stories or review me. I've never worried that someone could flame me because I left a less than squee review. I do tend to hold my tongue more in Yahoo groups. :-) But my icon is certainly getting a workout today.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

As so many times, you speak out of my heart. To see an established author downtalking a new author is plainly disgusting. We all know what it's like to finally get accepted on one of the moderated archives. I have no doubt that most authors start out by being rejected. Unless I'm the exception *Snape_smirk* Thing is, the ones I'm grieving over had bad reviews from non-authors and some seriously good reviews from highly established authors.

Of course new authors make mistakes. And they may even be overlooked by admins. The thing is, if admins fail to see those minor mistakes, it's a sign that the story is good, that the author has serious potential, isnt it? Because you'll only miss those typos/punctuation errors/etc if you totally get caught up in the story, or am I wrong in assuming that? :-) I've read quite a few stories on Ash that had a number of spellos or punctuation problems that even I recognised, but I could overlook them for the simple reason that the story was absolutely captivating.

I was raving mad about 15 months ago because Ash rejected my story. Once I calmed down and got over my hurt, I sat down and started reading grammar books. That, plus the help of a brilliant beta enabled me to get onto the moderated archives :-)

Yes, I, too, think there is quite a bit of jealousy from writers who do not make the effort to meet the criteria to get on the archives. I just find that so sad. I'm very lucky in that I never got a review like that, but at one stage, if I'd had, it would have stopped me from writing more. And I know there are lots of writers out there who decide not to write any more in the fandom because of one or three such poor reviews. That's why I brought this up on here.

I'm with you on the sock puppet. I leave reviews as I see fit, with my author name. I'd feel positively weird if I had to create a new name to just leave reviews. Oh yes, yahoo groups... *smirk* I use one in particular to just send update notices. :-) And *icon_lurve*

[larilee.livejournal.com]

Of course new authors make mistakes. And they may even be overlooked by admins. The thing is, if admins fail to see those minor mistakes, it's a sign that the story is good, that the author has serious potential, isnt it?

In most cases, yes. It could also mean that the author was given a list of corrections to make and that the corrections are pending. Or it could mean that I've been hitting the cough syrup a little too hard. :-)

Because you'll only miss those typos/punctuation errors/etc if you totally get caught up in the story, or am I wrong in assuming that? :-)

No, you're not wrong. I know a couple of times I've run across stories that were just so darn good, I had to do them twice because the first time I was too busy reading to actually mark mistakes. :-) There are some damn good writers out there.

I've read quite a few stories on Ash that had a number of spellos or punctuation problems that even I recognised, but I could overlook them for the simple reason that the story was absolutely captivating.

In some cases, writers were given validated status years ago when the archive first started because they were established and they could tell a good story. Over time, the standards became more... well, standard. We actually have an administrator who went through all five books twice (UK and US editions) and gathered a list of cannons spellings.

http://sycophanthex.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=41

So in some cases, you may see a story that started out years ago and was not held to the standards we now hold. I think metamuse is going to issue a disclaimer when we get switched over to our new program that stories before such and such a date were held by a different standard. At least I've been begging her to do that. :-) Because if you go back and read some of the really old stories, they're extremely good, but they have mistakes today that we would reject for.

And I'm glad you didn't stay mad. Most people, I think, don't read beyond that paragraph that says "Unfortunately, we are unable..." because a lot of information is given after it. Unless it flat out says that your characterizations are so wildly out of character or that we won't accept a story in which minors are having sex or asking why you're wasting our time with this indicating a major overhaul is needed, these are just grammar or canon our punctuation things that need to be cleared up.

The first chapter I submitted of my first story was sent to Occlumency. savageland was the administrator who handled it and even though my dialogue punctuation was so screwed, she explained what was wrong and how to fix it and told me she enjoyed the story. Well that just blew me away. I semi-expected that not only would it be outright rejected but they might ban me from the site for uploading it. I really try to remember that now, when I'm working the queues and it's a new writer who is obviously struggling with something, but trying. And sometimes I get too busy to do more then send up the standard letter.

But I strongly believe that new authors need to be encouraged because we desperately need them. People drop out, people burn out, people get written out. We need the new blood. Plus, we all started out once ourselves.

Could I get some help getting down off the soapbox? I seem to have a problem doing so myself. :-)

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

No. No. I'm not helping you down the soapbox. I enjoy it too much! I mean, most people disagree with everything I say, and then you come along and actually agree with a lot of my opinions. Or you post them first and I can't help but agree. So, no. I. Will. Not. Help. You. Down. The. Soapbox. And believe me, if I find a way to keep you up there, I will. :-)

I've had what I perceived as a seriously rude email from one of the admins originally, but as far as I know, she is no longer active. I find, in general, the archive has improved no end. Not only in terms of quality but also in terms of submission replies in terms of courtesy.

Which is exactly why I get so mad about reading reviews from non-authors (sockpuppets or not - who'd know anyways) who simply bash the writer.

But I strongly believe that new authors need to be encouraged because we desperately need them. People drop out, people burn out, people get written out. We need the new blood. Plus, we all started out once ourselves.

Yah. I totally agree. Which is why I posted my gripe in the first place, LOL. So many brilliant authors have not produced anything in two or three years. If we want to continue reading HG/SS fiction, then it really is in our interest to leave positive reviews for anyone who posts a promising fic.

And no, please don't get off the soapbox! It's valuable, ya know!

[queenp71.livejournal.com]

From a "non-author" (translation, I've only ever posted at grangersnape100), I have tried to be supportive when I read stories. As an educator, I know the value of positive reinforcement even when there are problems; therefore, I strive to make reviews as positive as possible. Usually, if I have an issue, I'll say something like "I'm enjoying the way you have brought the emotions out for the characters. However there are several small things that need to be addressed. You used there instead of their when you said....Again, I've enjoyed what I've read and would like to see more." However, I've never been intentionally nasty. And I don't see the point in having a second ID just for leaving reviews. I have two different IDs, but that is only b/c of a hacker incident on ONE archive so I use my queenp ID where possible and mpoe71 on the other archive...

Very often these days, I find that books don't do that any more. Have you read a fiction lately? How many typos, non-sentences, lacking commas, superfluous commas have you found? I think this is because they are moving away from using real people for the editing and are relying on computer programs to do it for them. Unfortunately, programs can only do so much...A person can differentiate between their and there and they're while a program just sees that the word is spelled correctly. It's aggravating to me when I see mistakes in a book...but that may just be the teacher in me. I see it as tacit approval for the grammar rules to be ignored.
/rant

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Thanks for that, queenp! I'm totally with you on everything. I know you don't leave nasty reviews. No, those come from people of a different kind. Always the same, always entirely not constructive, and always by either 'anonymous' or people who don't have any stories of their own listed.

I hope it's what you said, about computer programs being used and not able to detect real mistakes. But I have a sneaking suspicion that it is to dumb people down... *sigh* Never mind.

[queenp71.livejournal.com]

the dumbing down of the population is always a possibility...ALTHOUGH as a teacher, I try not to let that happen...despite the efforts of my students to make sure it does happen. ;D There is also the fact that the book publishers are hiring idiots who don't give a damn, b/c it is just a job...and don't care about doing their jobs well.

Although there are those who might argue that the leaving of nasty reviews is to "just do their job" not caring about anything other than ripping the author to shreds...I am personally of the opinion that those are the people that need to be ripped to shreds. ;)

But then again, half the time, my opinion on people is "kill 'em all" and get them out of the gene pool...:D