Question

[lady_karelia]

I know there are a lot of clever people on my f-list, and a lot of you are here in the US. My question is: Can something be done when someone refuses to rent out an apartment on the basis that one family member does not have a social security number? I'm raging right now, as this kind of stance puts me on the same level as illegal immigrants. Now, we're neither here illegally nor are we immigrants. And seriously, do they expect the holder of a professional work visa with a gazillion qualification to sleep in the park under the tree???

Comments

[alabastard.livejournal.com]

I can't speak on the legal particulars, but I would think something could be done, have you consulted a lawyer?

I know foreign students don't seem to have any trouble renting, we've had a few as tenants with no issues at all.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Yes, I filed a query with a lawyer's website, and hubby phoned the lawyer of his employer to see if that's legal at all. I hear ya on the foreign students, and we've never had an issue with me not having an SSN.

I do have a suspicion that the area we want to move to is kind of racist: the first apartment complex we applied to because a friend lives there, turned out to be unbelievably incompetent despite really good feedback on various sites and from other people living there. Now is the issue with me not having an SSN. It's positively weird and something doesn't ring quite right...

[alabastard.livejournal.com]

The whole thing rather stinks, yes, I'd look elsewhere.

[lady-rhian.livejournal.com]

That is an excellent question. So I take it the person *does* have a professional work visa? Do they have any other form of serious identification, i.e. birth certificate, bank statement that the landlord would accept? (If not born in the US, that could be difficult.) Alternately, would an employer be willing to vouch for them? The part that is strange to me is that this is real estate, not banking/credit card/passport etc. -- you don't exactly need a SS# to rent an apartment. Also, that it is only one member of a family moving in. Are there other adults, because if so, that seems extremely strict. I'm so sorry for the trouble you're having -- landlords can be a bitch to deal with. I hope you find someone reasonable to work with.

[lady-rhian.livejournal.com]

Come to think of it, you've probably already thought of all that. Wishing you the best of luck, hon.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Thank you! We'll try another place or two in that area, if not, there are others in Memphis that aren't quite so anal about the whole issue.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, hubby has an H1B visa and SSN, and I have the relevant visa as his spouse (can't look the name up, as he's still driving and has my passport, which they required to see). And yeah, hubby's employer would vouch if that were an issue. But they rejected purely on the basis that neither his wife nor his 18-yr-old daughter have an SSN. It all reeks of racism, really. :(

[pennswoods.livejournal.com]

I remember someone somewhere way back posting links to different sites dealing with state's tenant/landlord laws. Since you are not a tenant yet, I'm not sure if this would require something different. But state laws vary to the degree to which it favors the landlord over the tenant. Here a place to get you started and hopefully find an answer:

http://www.federal-services.com/laws/tnstatelaw.html

http://www.uslandlord.com/laws/tn.html

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Thanks. The links don't seem to work, but they give me some more ideas on search keywords. *sigh* And here I was hoping to move in a couple of weeks so we can save major $$ on daily gas consumption...

[southernwitch69.livejournal.com]

I think it's wrong what they are doing. I mean, it seems that as long as one has an ss number that should be fine. WTF

Good luck.

I'd just go back to the first one again and have their incompetent arses do the job (better than these mofos).

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Agree. Also, it's never happened before that they rejected on that basis. Really something wrong there methinks.

I don't want to go back to the first one, yanno? It's not like there are no other apartments to be had in Memphis, and frankly, with a partly coloured family, I'd rather not live in a racist area... We'll try one more there and see how it goes. It looks more promising, as they have some black people on their staff, which the other two didn't. And one can't help noticing that here in Memphis...

[notsosaintly.livejournal.com]

Seriously, next time your husband tries to rent, have him go by himself, apply by himself, only his name on the application. Have him say his wife is out of town until next month, but he wants the apartment ready by the time she gets here. He can spin a little lie just to avoid the BS, right?

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

I'll certainly keep the idea in mind! Thanks!

[voxangelus.livejournal.com]

The landlord doesn't want to get busted for housing illegal immigrants, so it's probably a blanket policy. There should be some recourse because you DO have the proper documentation. You should be able to get a copy of the landlord-tenant laws for your state on their website.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

I can sort of see their point, but then they should make allowances for cases such as ours, and we're surely not the only couple in that boat. I mean, we pay as much tax as an American with the same earnings, and we already lose out on the tax rebate, since they didn't include families with fewer SSNs than members. I feel decidedly unwelcome in this country right now. :(

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see that point. But... I'm not illegal and I feel racially discriminated against. It's all sorted now, anyways, and they admitted they were in the wrong.

[voxangelus.livejournal.com]

Well, I'm glad it got all sorted out.

I agree with you that it is wrong and you probably should feel discriminated against. Just because it's policy doesn't make it right.

[a-bees-buzz.livejournal.com]

It is illegal for anyone outside the government, your employer, or your bank to require a social security number for any reason. Try it: next time someone legitimate asks for your ss#, say you'd rather not give it out - they'll accept another form of identification every time. A renter who requires an ss# is breaking the law.

How do I know? Well, remember that non-American husband of mine? There's a loooooong story there.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I'm trying to find a relevant law, but so far, no luck. I was already royally peeved that we had no tax rebate on the same grounds (they wanted to "avoid paying rebates to illegal immigrants"), but this is really unfair. *pouts*

[a-bees-buzz.livejournal.com]

The tax one is legit, sadly. But, you have three years to challenge a tax return, and a retroactive ss# counts. If it's costing you money, you should apply for one. It's not that hard.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

From what I've learned, it depends on the state whether or not I can be given an SSN, even though I'm not allowed to work etc. When we first moved here, I tried in MS and was told I can't apply for one since I "don't need one." Oh well. At least the housing place has changed their opinion.

[a-bees-buzz.livejournal.com]

Nope. SSNs are federal, not state. They can suggest you don't need one and shouldn't bother, but they can't deny you one. And you "need" one for tax purposes even if you aren't working.

Nice to hear the housing people didn't insist on being assholes, but I'm still so sorry this happened to you.

[ariadne1.livejournal.com]

I know nothing about landlord/tenant laws, but I'm adding my voice to the chorus of WTF and sympathy...

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Thanks, my friend. I could be planning the Chicago trip instead of trying to find relevant laws to hold under their noses. :(

[ariadne1.livejournal.com]

Seriously. TN -> Chicago. Way more fun.

*sighs*

*hands you corn/tomato/onion salad*

Wish I could do more...

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Oh, that was tasty, thank you!

I'm still trying to hunt for smallish leeks (forget baby leeks here now)... One day, I'm sure, I'll be successful.

[irishredlass69.livejournal.com]

Lady they are requesting the SS# to perform a credit evaluation, as you and your husband are married it is common for this to be done jointly. However, as you are not, I am assuming, a citizen of the US it is acceptable you would not have a SS Card and they should accept alternative government issued identification which you posses as your husbands spouse. This can be fought but, would be rather time consuming. My recommendation is to rent elsewhere and then pursue legal channels. This is a case of discrimination and, unfortunately, I suspect it is due more to your husbands ethnic origins than your own. He is the one that appears "ethnic" and this country, unfortunately is still quite biggotted and even more so since the tragedy of 9/11. Good Luck.

[notsosaintly.livejournal.com]

In California, things are separate. They can't ask for a wife's SSN to do a credit check if the apartment is going to be under the husband's name. In the state where I'm originally from (Wisconsin), things are joint, and they can. So check what the law is in that area.

And, lack of SSN means you have no credit rating. That's all. He'd go strictly by your husband's.

[irishredlass69.livejournal.com]

That is entirely true, as I am now a resident of Wisconsin and Washington (my home state) has the same practice this is what I tend to think is universal (my short sighted-ness). Indeed check the state laws!

[notsosaintly.livejournal.com]

You now live in Wisconsin? You poor, poor, poor dear.

I escaped when I was 23. And do you know why? I was sick of getting stuck in a parallel parking space after the plow went through (especially when you parked in front of a bunch of old-folks homes), shoveling, freezing snot, more shoveling, rocking your car back and forth when you got stuck, putting on a damn winter coat and mittens and a hat and a scarf just to go out to get the mail.

I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir after this last winter.

(key word: escaped!)

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Muah! All sorted! No fighting, just a snotty phone call to their head office telling them we contacted HUD. Boy, did they move their big arses quickly.

[mundungus42.livejournal.com]

That's beyond absurd. There have been a number of protectionist townships passing laws that ban landlords from renting to people in this country illegally, which you and your husband are CLEARLY not, but to a lot of ignorant people, a SSN is essentially proof that you're supposed to be here. I do hope you're able to snap a picture of the refuser's face when you and/or your lawyer delivers him/her proof that he/she is breaking the law. *hugs you* I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

It's ironic, really, especially as I know a few US citizens who threw their SSN away on the basis that they are humans and not numbers, lol. Ah well, it's all sorted. Didn't take much, only the information that we contacted HUD. They changed their opinion real quick. I'm glad it's sorted cuz it's the kind of thing I find really irritating. Thank you for your support! *hugs*

[teshara.livejournal.com]

I'd call HUD honestly.
I believe they're supposed to have alternate tracking numbers for you, but I don't know.
My ex husband is here illegally and he rents legally so I know you can do it.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Teehee, just telling them we contacted HUD did it. :) Thanks for that!

[m-mcgonagall-65.livejournal.com]

I can't help you with the legal particulars, but I will add my voice of indignation for the apartment complex and encouragement for you and your family. *sends hugs*

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

Thank you! Your support means the world to me. It spurred me to figure out a plan of action. All sorted now. *wide grin*

[notsosaintly.livejournal.com]

Sounds like a racial thing to me. All that you need to show are his work visa, his SSN, and your visa.

I was going to say he should sign the apartment under ONLY his name. He's got an SSN, so they'd do all the paperwork in his name and should not ask for yours at all. Too late for this apartment of course.

But if it's a racist thing ... what, they don't want camels in the parking lot? *snort* We deal with the same fucking bull-shit. It's how my husband lost his job way back when--when some white-ass mofo decided to report my husband as a terrorist to Homeland Security. (Yes, my ass is white too, but my heart is colorless.)

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

It's strange, cuz we've never experienced racism over here. In England, especially in the 1980s, it was kind of normal to not find a bed and breakfast if one party wasn't white. But here? Never. This was the first time, and I still haven't a clue whether it really is racist or just them being idiots. I mean, it's the South, yanno? Most peops I've come across aren't the brightest stars in the sky.

[rosedemon.livejournal.com]

I am not sure they cannot. Depends on whether or not the apartment is attached to their house or joins their living quarters. I think it is at that point that Federal Laws fall to the side of the road. Idea being you are sharing space with the tenant and there by you can pick and choose.

However, if the apartment is part of a large complex, that may be another matter. It could be part of rental policy, although I don't understand why a work visa, passport or any other form of ID would not qualify. Hell, SS numbers are the easiest thing in the world to fake. No picture on them. I would think a Visa or a passport would do much better.

We own four houses, three of which we rent out. We have asked for Driver's Licenses as a form of ID and have called places of employment. I don't remember ever getting a ss number.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

It's an apartment complex, not even owned by a person but a corporation. They admitted they were in the wrong in a phone call, so it's all worked out. Nobody has ever asked for my SSN when trying to rent a place. They do a credit check, fair enough, they might even ask to see the visa in my passport, but that's always been sufficient. *shrugs* Oh well.

[apythia.livejournal.com]

My friend is an immigration lawyer. While you are not an immigrant, but she deals with this all the time. She brings nurses over and finds them housing and jobs.

[apythia.livejournal.com]

She said SSN are required if they are to be on the lease. She suggested just having the name of someone with a SSN be on the lease. But she did strongly suggest that everyone get a SSN. She said if you go into the office to get it; it will take about two weeks.

[lady-karelia.livejournal.com]

From what I understand, it depends on the state's laws. Here in TN, it's actually not legal to reject a potential renter on the basis that they don't have a SSN. And I can't get an SSN because their office tells me I don't need one...